No justice at all!
Posted by Sitemaster on August 28, 2007
Belgium has three official languages, Flemish (Dutch), French and German.
The SIOE appeal against Brussels Mayor Thielemans’s ban of the 11th September demonstration, Stop Islamisation Of Europe was presented to a Dutch speaking court.
Senator Hugo Coveliers outlined SIOE’s reasons for having the outrageous ban overturned and arrived at an outrageous decision.
Or more accurately, a non-decision.
After listening to the case for two hours those in judgement smiled and said something along the lines of “This is not a matter for us, take it to a French speaking court”.
They also suggested that Udo Ulfkotte could not possibly represent 20,000 demonstrators and that perhaps it would be necessary for each of the 20,000 persons to attend a hearing separately!
This is what Belgian and European Union justice has become – no justice at all.
Udo Ulfkotte asked whether “Belgium had become a country of apartheid?”
We leave that for the world to answer.
August 28, 2007 at 9:19 pm
“to attend a hearing separately!”
The separate hearings are already scheduled to 9/11!
What is obvious is that we cannot trust instituitions anymore and are on our own.
August 28, 2007 at 9:21 pm
Saw an item on this issue on Canvas (TV-channel in B.): outrageous the way these journo’s presented the whole thing (ridiculous tune was very annoying, ment to portray the justified actions of Dr. Ulfkotte as if it where slapstick).
Belgium as a state (not the people) is already a joke. This ploy by the legislatives of Brussels is a real scandal. The ‘progressive’ political elites are as progressive as a debilitating chronic disease. The people of Europe (not EU) must regard it as their right, in fact their duty, to take back the power they’ve entrusted into the hands of these so-called ‘leaders’.
What were those words from Burke again?
“All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.”
CU all in Brussels
Sag.
August 28, 2007 at 9:29 pm
Have any reasons been given for this extraordinary decision? Why does it have to go to a French speaking court? Why do 20,000 people have to represent themselves individually? What has become of the right to assemble (as guaranteed by the European Convention on Human Rights)?
This non-decision has far reaching implications for anyone who wishes to protest on any issue at all!
(but why am I not surprised?)
A Media Release should be sent out to newspapers and TV station across the continent and to North America.
August 28, 2007 at 9:56 pm
It’s not merely us being fucked over by this smug overpaid self-acclaimed juridicule upper-class, their children and grandchildren are much more so! An elite, so increasingly detached from real life, it should give one hope for the future…
August 28, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Words cannot adequately describe the emotions I am feeling about the judicial decision. We are witnessing the systematic destruction of our culture and our democracies. The very institutions that are supposed to protect all of their citizens, are proactively working against the majority.
Islam and our officials appear to be in partnership with one another, as each side strives for their totalitarian ideals. They are using each other as pawns to reach those goals, but it remains to be seen who ends up on top. Either way the future does not look good. We are facing a monsterous Goliath, and need a 21st century David. Any takers for the position?
SIOE organizers, despite today’s ruling you have done something very significant. Your efforts have provoked thought, discussion, awareness throughout the world, and people are beginning to come out of their comas. SIOE also provides a venue for people to unite, rather than being lonely voices in the wind trying to protect their democracies alone. Despite today’s disheartening ruling, SIOE has accomplished many great things, for which I and others are grateful.
August 28, 2007 at 11:20 pm
The way we are doing this is by the rules of the same people that we are against, ie there rules, so a different stratergy is needed were they can’t bend the rules to favour themselves, after all is this not what islam has been doing in Europe for the last 50 years, perhaps we should learn from the enemy, there will be parts of the main stream media that do show sympathy towards our opinions and are in themselves against the powers that be.
The enemy of my enemy, is my friend.
August 28, 2007 at 11:20 pm
This is what has become of freedom of speech in Europe. It is now only given to a select few and those few are not the native population. What a travesty of justice! This non ruling should only serve to get more people to attend a non demonstration. Keep up your spirits. Good must prevail or we are all doomed.
August 28, 2007 at 11:35 pm
Why the French language? I thought Brussels was originally part of Flanders but is now is a special region on its own with Dutch and French speakers. I thought that the Dutch and French speakers were equal in Belgium. Has something changed in Belgium in recent weeks? In the future are the courts in Flanders going to be forbidden from conducting their affairs in Dutch?
The authorities in Belgium seem to be doing what they have being doing all along – stalling for time. I reckon that they think that by doing this people will not make plans to attend and then at the last minute they can then allow the demonstration and then say that only a few crackpot extremists are concerned about the Islamisation of Europe.
They know that people will be coming from across Europe to stand in pan European solidarity. I think that the authorities are concerned that the EU itself would be exposed for what it is - anti European. People coming together in agreement where the politicians cannot come together. They are therefore desperate to keep any numbers that turn up to a minimum. This whole episode demonstrates that the European Union itself is a very unfunny joke.
The lengths that reasonable people must go to secure their basic human rights! I thought these battles had been won in nineteenth century! I was obviously wrong - the right to peaceful protest no longer exists and people need to campaign for it again. Rights won by the political left are now been taken away by the political left in their bid for supreme and absolute power.
See you all at the minute of silence for the victims of 9-11 2001. Long live Europe! Down with the tyrannical EU!
August 28, 2007 at 11:42 pm
That makes no sense to me at all! In the UK I am used to hearing about the odd daft judicial decision, but that is in a class of its own! Surely Belgian law should be the same regardless of the language it is rendered in?!
August 28, 2007 at 11:46 pm
this is very disappointing, i hoped that European institution will stand in defence of European principles. you should go and “celebrate Mayors birthday”, anyway.
best wishes and support to your efforts.
August 29, 2007 at 12:44 am
M O N S T R U O S U S E S T !
August 29, 2007 at 12:52 am
I saw the issue on Canvas also.
Prof. Marc De Vos was defending the right to demonstrate because the core issue of it: a concern that Islam will become a dominant political power in Europe and the question if growing influence of Islam (in politics) can coëxist with the constitutional rights in Europe (eg freedom of speech(?), equality of men and women, secularity, etc.). He also defended the location as being symbolic.
He wasn’t convinced a bit about the argumentation of Thielemans to prohibit the demonstration (possible agression by opponents). Democracy has it’s price and keeping the order by the police on such moments is one of them (they can do it every weekend around the Belgian sockerstadions).
And yes the journalist was using a ridiculous tone and tried to put the demonstration in the extreme-right corner. The professor stayed on his viewpoint and statet something in the order that being critic about this issue (the concern about the growing influence of Islam) does not equal being extreme-right. He said you can’t speak out of such a theme nowadays without it getting polarised.
He said we are living in a democracy where freedom of speech is of highest concern.
Note: all the above is not the exact statement of prof. Marc De Vos given during the interview.
Question:
A whole lot of people are convinced to go anyway to Brussels on 11th sep. Are there already some details about the demonstration as suggested in the Demo info-item :
1 Times for the assembling of demonstrators and start of the demo
2 Assembly point
3 Route
4 End of march speakers (subject to change)
5 Delegates to the EU Parliament with petitions etc
6 Official end of demo
Especialy Time and assebly point (end point being European Parliament I gues) is crucial.
Or is this info already posted elsewhere?
y_not
August 29, 2007 at 5:16 am
Clearly the “seat” of the EU has shown itself to be a TOILET seat as of “This is not a matter for us, take it to a French speaking court”–is alot of sh!te!!! Hubristic judges with an agenda to not rule on the SIOE demonstration thus squelching free speech without A “WORD”.
August 29, 2007 at 11:02 am
In Belgium and especially Brussels there are laws.
Once of them is there to protect the citizens based on their language (Brussels has a bi-lingual status French and Dutch, no German here).
In Brussels, if you fulfill a complaint to a dutch speaking court, you have to speak and give your documents in Dutch (if you can’t speak/write Dutch, your lawyer has).
If you or your lawyer makes use of French to a dutch speaking court, your trial will be automatically transfered to a french speaking one.
So I presume if the Court dismissed asking to send the trial to a french speaking one, it’s maybe for one of the reason explained here above.
August 29, 2007 at 11:03 am
This judgement is really ridiculous.
In this way the decision will
be postponed and postponed. Very childish.
Nevertheless, on the eleventh of september I am in Brussels to demonstrate against the Islamisation of Europe. This idiotic judgement makes clear that the Islamisation is already a fact in Europe.The demonstration against it is the best thing we can do!!!
August 29, 2007 at 11:40 am
http://www.hln.be/hlns/cache/det/art_567304.html?wt.bron=homeArt1
In that article the belgian newspaper Het Laatste Nieuws tries to link the demo to the far (very far) right. (they put a picture of a hitler look-alike above the article ) There is a reaction module where people can react to the article , i can see a lot of reactions condemning the “racist anti islam demo” and also a lot of pretty “dumb” right-wing reactions. However i posted 2 comments that didn´t make it through the censor-filter …what i posted is :
(post was in dutch , i´ll translate it to English)
People , don´t be fooled : the demo is NOT against islam itself , stormfront and b&h were NOT invited and are no part of the organization . inform yourself on sioe.wordpress.com (official site of the organizers)
It is clear that the person that wrote the article (and the ones monitoring the reaction module) are set to scare “normal people” away from the demo and are trying to criminalize the people who participate.
This is clearly ill will and a dangerous one at that .
Find who wrote the article , if through his actions the extremists think that it will be a nazi meeting and they come to brussels in force than this person should be partly accountable for any possible “trouble or bloodshed” that he helped cause !
Ideas anyone ?
First of all i think the organizers should try to get hold of the leaders of the several chapters of stormfront and try to discuss terms with them. If they are willing to leave their flags and badges home and walk in the protest as individuals and not as stormfront we could avoid most of the problems that might occur.
August 29, 2007 at 12:37 pm
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/duitser-ulfkotte-dinsdag-11-september-393019p4.html
Furthermore this is the link to the stormfront forum where the journalist got the information for his stupid accusations , there is a reaction from the guy that posted the call to go by bus and he clearly states that no combat18 , blood and honour etc… members called to go to the demo , he just put his phonenumber on the stormfront page to organize busses from holland to brussels for people reading the forum to “join the demo” , not as an organization.
The comment is in dutch , i can translate it if you want.
August 29, 2007 at 1:01 pm
“First of all i think the organizers should try to get hold of the leaders of the several chapters of stormfront”
I dont understand, why these whitepride extreme right guys want to march for this? David Duke and other white supermacists who are involved with stormfront have good relations with arab leaders, Bashar al-Assad for example (president of syria) They have only one goal, wipe out of jews from the face of the earth.
If people suspect that there will be extreme elements coming in to march, they will back off.
August 29, 2007 at 3:04 pm
To Pepijn Dever
Who is this “journalist”?
If he goes to that site unstead to SIOE site maybe it was because he knows that what he was looking for was there.
August 29, 2007 at 4:22 pm
@ Antonio
I have no idea , the exact same article was published in the newspapers -het laatste nieuws , de morgen , de standaard , …
under the hln article was source : Belga/HLN and under de standaard article the source was : SVH
Anyway , as far as i know it´s the head of the redaction who is responsible for what gets published, not the journalist himself. ( i might be wrong here)
August 29, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Serious suggestion .
If I could be in Brussels I would do this for you .
Do not hold a demonstration hold a religious procession , at the front have a clergyman in robes with a processional Cross . Since freedom of religion is guaranteed , the sight of police preventing a Christian procession would be abhorant to many in Europe and America . I do not think that even the Belgian police are that stupid .
Use the force of public opinion against the Anti-Christ Mayor .
August 29, 2007 at 6:58 pm
Thanks for the clarification Choc. The process does seem to be very cumberome and confusing to an outsider so it is possible to jump to the wrong conclusions as I did. However, if Belgium is the model for the EU as some people seem to suggest it doesn’t bode well for Europe as a whole.
August 29, 2007 at 7:37 pm
SIOE responded to HLNBe as soon as the article appeared and of course our riposte was not published.
Anders Gravers read it to SIOE supporters at the practice demo on 25th August.
August 29, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Sitemaster….
Im not sure how this site is operated, but if you have your demonstration on 9/11 just like any other demonstration, then the police and EU will call you all racist and use the media to demonise you all,and probably cut you up with batons at the first opertunity, so the only way to do it is by doing something along the lines of what The Doctor #21 says, this is like a game of chess, you have to protect yourselves and the only way to do that is to be something that the police won’t dare to attack for fear of the bad media coverage that they will get…….its upto you, this is a one off chance to make a first inpression, screw it up and its all over for SIOE as far as the main stream public are concerned.
Take care.
August 29, 2007 at 11:13 pm
I must say I agree one 100% with both remarks made by ‘The Doctor’ #21 (Dr. Who?) and ‘SF’ #24.
Demo banned by an overtly hostile mayor; different groups will try to incite violence, the AEL for sure will; SIOE civilians criminalized by Thielemans, i.e. police won’t protect us or will probably do a rather sloppy job..; mainstream media will definitely not be on our side to say the least, et cetera.
One simply must adjust to this dramatic change of circumstances and be creative where it matters most: in the streets of Brussels. Of course it is important to build a EU-wide network of anti-islamism activists, all very true, but it is at least equally important what impression this demo is going to leave upon the average citizen in Europe who’ll nót attend the SIOE demo this time, but perhaps in the very near future would.
Sag.
August 29, 2007 at 11:47 pm
Just keep your calm , brothers and sisters …
-If more than 5000 people (and there will be way more) you can allready forget about AEL attacking …. they are obnoxious, but not downright retarded… Also forget about the police enforcing the ban or arresting the lot…just too much people …they will “escort” …that´s all.
(and dont forget that 70% of the police force is sympathetic to our cause…..they KNOW what´s going on )
As for extremists? same thing … a crowd like that can be a self-policing-force …if they want to, it wont be a problem if we dont let it be one.
- Belgium is not a third world country with a military police that will abuse people at the drop of a dime …want to be sure ? get your weapons (a camera ) Lawyers drool on photographic evidence of police violence.
-The message we want to send will be peaceful and we will send it mainly by our numbers ….every soul counts !
-Because of the incompetent way thielemans handled the demo a lot of mainstream newspapers have commented about it two weeks beforehand , read the comment sections ! people feel they have dropped their masks , allready before the demo is even close a lot of people have expressed their support to the cause (as published on sioe.wordpress.com , not any other site not affiliated with the organization)
-To give in to their threats and blatant disregard of democratic values will make us loose the first chapter/battle/step in our strife , if we do that now ….then they know it works… dont let them carry your word to its grave , your word is your power .
-The demo WILL go ahead , if YOU are not there for whatever reason inspired by fear then you will weaken the effort of the brave souls who are willing to stand up against oppression , who will be there to defend YOUR freedom.
—> Get to brussels , get there in numbers , because of thielemans´ actions it has become a anti-sharia/pro free speech/democracy demo .
August 30, 2007 at 12:10 am
I am with Pepijn Dever
Masks fallen and the rules are clear: if we go by their rules we loose.
If we dont do it now because of Dhimmi Thielemans forbid we will never be allowed to do it.
We cannot weacken now.
We shall not weacken. We shall not hide behind a priest.
We shall stand.
Go to Brussels. Bring as many friends as you can. Bring your cameras. Bring flowers (to give to the police)
August 30, 2007 at 11:09 am
no agreement for further islamisation, stop it just now!!!
August 30, 2007 at 5:19 pm
Antonio; I hope that you did not think that I was saying to hide behind clergymen , not at all . I was pointing out that if the demonstration is still banned , then a ” religious ” procession would be difficult to stop . I was trying to think outside of the box .
Believe me , it grieves me take I cannot be present in Brussels , but personal circumstances makes that not possible .